just a few word from me

vector, it certainly was a fantasy, which was precisely the point.

eitherway, guidelines would constantly evolve as things would work and things wouldnt. what im talking about when i say guidelines would be things like: defining a backstory and sticking to it, how to apply it to maps, how we could make general art work refer to it etc. lets not forget that warsow had a credible and developped backstory, that was essentially totally forgotten (i tried to bring it back a little bit, the result of which is the fake 'ads' and billboards you see around maps nowadays). the next thing would be to define a visual style, derived from the backstory and then stick to that also. warsow has been through god knows how many 'identity' crises because this was never done. from the colorful and sometimes abstract visual style (which was random in the first place) to something that was loosely inspired by TF2 (around the time bomb was being developped and refined). It seems that the new identity is alot more scifi (there was always a scifi feel to some maps tho) which is probably the style that would have suited the original backstory best. with respect to the gameplay itself, you would have to figure out and define clearly how you want the game played and then tailor the gametype, scale and weapons to what you think will achieve that style of play. the important thing is to make sure you arent trying to fit a square block in a round hole. that way you avoid the situation you have now where people are constantly sanding the square block, but no amount of sanding will ever make it fit properly.

that said, its very easy to be critical, and it must not be forgotten that warsow started off as a hobby project on the side and even without taking that into account the result and achievement is phenomenal and all involved should be proud.
(updated 2012-01-31 22:12:12)

thelawenforcer wrote:
the next thing would be to define a visual style, derived from the backstory and then stick to that also. warsow has been through god knows how many 'identity' crises because this was never done. from the colorful and sometimes abstract visual style (which was random in the first place) to something that was loosely inspired by TF2 (around the time bomb was being developped and refined). It seems that the new identity is alot more scifi (there was always a scifi feel to some maps tho) which is probably the style that would have suited the original backstory best.

IMO the current style for most of it is actually very close to the original releases, like the first wdm1. Urban future-like. But for most people who keep complaining about the style, their "true" style is the weird eyesore tron-like style ala old wdm5 and acid*.
(updated 2012-02-01 22:11:48)

But then again, I remember when I was 15 and showed the old styled maps to some friends they said like "this game looks rediculous, is this made for 7 year old kids? Look at these gay maps! Only thing missing is some pink dildoes hanging from the ceiling"

So it's a matter of opinions :) I currently think current direction of style is awesome, even though I always wanted to see more maps like acidwdm6 (the green one)

Tbh, I really like wdm1's design, and really liked acidwdm3 and oldwdm2 best. But really the only ones I disliked much were the ones with large amounts of wood. I like that things are going more scifi now.

Cowboy coding, that's what wsw has to deal with since 2002. And that's awesome.

tl:dr

my 2 cents:

Remove mg from tdm maps or nerf it to hell. Basicly u can play a whole tdm game with just mg and still rack up frags. No reason to get any other weapons and thats just lame.

Stun on all weps would be nice but idk. I just suck at chasing.

Overactive wrote:
tl:dr

my 2 cents:

Remove mg from tdm maps or nerf it to hell. Basicly u can play a whole tdm game with just mg and still rack up frags. No reason to get any other weapons and thats just lame.

Stun on all weps would be nice but idk. I just suck at chasing.

Oh come on now. Its because TDM maps are rather open, and what'd be a better weapon in TDM than MG?

Notice that MG is a spawn weapon in QL and it has only 50dps but it is really lot used in TDM there due to open maps

LG, EB and RG too are lot better in TDM than what they are in, lets, say, duel for example..

If we use QL as a model they nerfed the damage of the machine gun in TDM to 4 dmg per bullet with a DPS of 40, while it's 5 dmg in all other gametype (dps of 50).

Compare that to Warsows 7.65 per bullet and DPS of 87.75 DPS :)
And just to put it to perspective, with LG you have a DPS of 130 (6.5 per cell), and in TDM most of the time you dont have Strong LG, so you will have the flacid LG that is somewhat harder to hit with. While the MG within LG distance has near to no spread and shoots straight as an arrow. :)

And with maps like WDM7 where you have 2 MGs its very easy to cess with the mg, you and your teammate shooting at the same person at once, will end up with him loosing about 100 HP per second (or more).

But I think alot of the problems could be solved by having 30 sec weapon spawn in TDM. Would also add some more tactics or important areas to defend and items to time.

Overactive wrote:

Remove mg from tdm maps

and ctf maps too, thanks.

7 pages of thread, so much for "just a few words" :P

15 sec wep spawndelay is already a lot. 30 would make it even harder for the down team. in a 20 minute match with an even 120:120 score there are 240 kills / 1200 secs, thats 6 kills in 30 seconds. on tdm maps there are like what, 10-12 weapons sprinkled all over? but players usually take more than one gun. so, i dont know where that equation is taking me xD, i thought it could prove lower tear players will have gb for much of the time. as a down player you might end up with just weak lg. that is, if you'r lucky. weak lg is next to useless. while up players can time strong lg and do 260 dps in a team of two.

MagusZero wrote:
But really the only ones I disliked much were the ones with large amounts of wood.

like what?

VectorVanDoom, you are forgetting that you have the ability to drop weapons and ammo to you teammates.

And in QW you manage with 30 sec weapon spawn even without weapon drop. So what you do then is that if you kill someone that has a weapon that could be useful for a teammember (like RL, LG or something) you stay at the pack that is dropped and wait until a teammate comes and picks it up, or if no one is interested in it you take it yourself.

And it should be hard for the down team. They have to use teamwork to take over a spot, like 4 man rush to a certain item/area.

tongue wrote:
VectorVanDoom, you are forgetting that you have the ability to drop weapons and ammo to you teammates.

And in QW you manage with 30 sec weapon spawn even without weapon drop. So what you do then is that if you kill someone that has a weapon that could be useful for a teammember (like RL, LG or something) you stay at the pack that is dropped and wait until a teammate comes and picks it up, or if no one is interested in it you take it yourself.

And it should be hard for the down team. They have to use teamwork to take over a spot, like 4 man rush to a certain item/area.

That's why TDM is the most popular GT in Warsow.

Compare that to Warsows 7.65 per bullet and DPS of 87.75 DPS

DPS of it is 7.65/0.075 = 102

But let me point out that


1) It is not spawn weapon so you actually have to see the effort to take it
2) It has lot more spread than QL
3) The ammo runs out rather fast if u spam it and then need to wait for the next MG or pick an ammo box
4) MG is not disturbing at all, remember that it's not in all maps
5) Almost everyone has under 30% accuracy with it, it takes aim to be effective with MG
6) MG is fun to use, good finisher and medium range weapon. Good variety to that fucking run-to-the-face-and-spam-million-random-rockets-and-hope-for-the-best style.
7) MG fills the weaponset rather nicely
8) MG+weapon X combos are really fun!
9) you all are MG racists only because of its black color
(updated 2012-03-12 16:28:49)

shoots straight as an arrow

Wilhelm Tell would aggressively disagree with this argument.
Imagine that your teammate had an apple over his head and you tried to hit the apple with MG from far distance. Your teammate would get some bullets through his brains and then die. So so much for the "straight as an arrow".

"adem" wrote:
That's why TDM is the most popular GT in Warsow.

TDM is the most popular GT in Warsow.

the most popular GT

(updated 2012-03-12 16:35:18)

DPS of it is 7.65/0.075 = 102

Even WORSE then.. the spread is not that great. if you aim with the MG within LG range, you will hit pretty much every freaking bullet.

And on all TDM maps that are played often (wdm4, wdm7 and wdm13) there are MGs.

In my mind, LG is the weapon you should use for your nice combos, as a finnish of weapon etc etc. But if the MG is nerfed to like 5 dmg and maybe 100 ms reload it would be ok.

But as I said, i think the problem is rather that its 15 wep spawn time, since you are hardly ever without a weapon in TDM as it is today. If you are, you are just to impatient to just wait for tops ~ 10 seconds for a new weapon to spawn.

MG should be removed from all tdm maps or changed. I've fealt its op'ness

If u dont wanna remove mg, there could be a strong and weak amo for it. So u need to pick up 2 items before its usefull. Like with lg etc!. Strong MG can be as i mg is now, and weak mg could be smth like: 4 dmg/bullet and dubble spread.

And I agree that weapon time should be 30. I havent played that much tdm/duel. But all Ive played make me understand that, it should be awarded to use ur brain. So its harder to do "run-to-the-face-and-spam-million-random-rockets-and-hope-for-the-best style" :D dont have to be rockets. Can be plasma/riot/gb or whatever.
(updated 2012-03-12 17:01:48)

this feels strange

wasnt this thread a few pages back about nerving gunblade?
im confused

But if we keep on nerfing all weps we will have a fucking boring gameplay with toy weapons, 0.42 style. Let's not go there again please
(updated 2012-03-12 18:43:19)

viiGo wrote:

Overactive wrote:

Remove mg from tdm maps

and ctf maps too, thanks.

>acting as if you were very important persons who should be considered very seriously and thoroughly respected throughout the wsw community regardless the fact that you 2 haven't done anything for the Warsow community yet.
This attitude pisses me off. Could you 2 please pack your stuff and move to the closest exit.

tongue wrote:


In my mind, LG is the weapon you should use for your nice combos, as a finnish of weapon etc etc. But if the MG is nerfed to like 5 dmg and maybe 100 ms reload it would be ok.

This still isn't a Goddamn Quake Live
(updated 2012-03-12 18:47:27)