Warsow 0.7 Release Cup 23rd June (with prize money)

It seems fine to me, like Law said, it was introduced in the cup, and we all saw and played it then for the first time. No reason not to talk about it here. Feel free to start a new thread if you want though.

You are correct. No amount of arguing will change the developers' minds. Detailed constructive criticism might, however.

Darkwave wrote:

Huksi` wrote:
No but, take wdm2 for example. That map was never supposed to have strong RL or strong EB, but now it has both of them. Wdm3 also has strong RL now.

So now these maps that were planned on the fact that they don't have strong ammo for weapon x will play differently.

You do realise the dmg output from weak = 65 and strong = 75 (correct me if I'm wrong). The difference isn't THAT big to make the map played any differently then now. You can go have fun with your RL in dm3, but I'll be having my fun while controlling LG ^^

Weak EB is 60, and imo +15 is a noticable difference.
And this strong-ammo only change might seem like a small difference, but no matter what you say, I say that it strongly affects the nature of the game. It's a big change, not a small one.

clownFart wrote:
removing the weak ammo makes the game more balanced, less random, and easier to understand for new players.

How? Elaborate a bit on this.
Sorry double post, I ment to edit it with the previous one but failed.

If you have any real suggestions to improve the new ammo system, I'd love to hear them.

Well I would suggest that there is an ammo cap, above which you can't go without taking ammo packs. Like you could only get 10 rockets if you pick only RL's, but with ammo packs you could go to 20. Same with EB, you could only go to 5 with taking the EB but with the ammo pack you can go up to 10. It would give some value to ammo packs and this way people would still make the hard jumps to those hard EB-ammopack spots.
(updated 2012-06-26 11:56:47)

Huksi` wrote:

clownFart wrote:
removing the weak ammo makes the game more balanced, less random, and easier to understand for new players.

How? Elaborate a bit on this.
Sorry double post, I ment to edit it with the previous one but failed.

Removing weak ammo means I don't have to explain to every single new player how it works for all the guns, like weak lg does the same damage but is flaccid, or that to use strong ammo you have to pickup an ammo box, and you always shoot strong ammo first if you have any. I've taught this to countless amount of people through the years. I really like the weak ammo system, when I first started, I didn't. Neither do most new players, regardless of their video game experience.

It makes the game less random by not having things like a flaccid LG, and evening the damage output of the guns to always be the same.

That's true and I think most players appreciate that clownfart. I think the principle was and still is good - trying to make ammo more important that is - but that it wasn't very well done. However the principle remains good.

The only thing that sucked for weak ammo imo were the changes in some weapons behavior (ie the way you need to aim to successfully obtain a hit; flaccid lg projectile eb etc). I guess that the system would work great if these changes didn't exist, and for example weak lg had poor knockback/stun and strong lg quite a decent ammount of both, and also dealt some more dmg than weak. Same could go with eb, and so on

If you have any real suggestions to improve the new ammo system, I'd love to hear them.

+15dmg on damage, for all the weapons, between weak and strong ammo. All the others weapons properties remain the same, both weak & strong.
(updated 2012-06-26 15:56:24)

Koochi wrote:

If you have any real suggestions to improve the new ammo system, I'd love to hear them.

+15dmg on damage and 5pickup to strong. All the others properties remain the same, both weak & strong.

What weapon might the mighty Koochi be talking about?

*updated* :P

Huksi` wrote:

clownFart wrote:
removing the weak ammo makes the game more balanced, less random, and easier to understand for new players.

How? Elaborate a bit on this.
Sorry double post, I ment to edit it with the previous one but failed.

You trolling us?

I quote myself from 1 page ago:

1) One of the problems in warsow duel with the ammo-system on high skill was that first kill was a HUGE game-decider. Scores were most of the time around 18-5 and making it impossible to get back control in the game. You almost never had scores for example 12-14.

The one who was in control of armors/hp already had a bigger advantage but he was also able to control the ammo which gave him even more dmg. This is where the fault lies with the ammo system. The one in control does MORE dmg AND has MORE hp/armor. It wasn't balanced. And in my opinion, it only added frustrations.

As long you dont find a solution to this problem, dont bother...
(updated 2012-06-26 19:27:53)

Darkwave wrote:

The one who was in control of armors/hp already had a bigger advantage but he was also able to control the ammo which gave him even more dmg. This is where the fault lies with the ammo system. The one in control does MORE dmg AND has MORE hp/armor. It wasn't balanced. And in my opinion, it only added frustrations.

As long you dont find a solution to this problem, dont bother...

>emphasizes his own point with bold, caps lock and italic text and underlining too

You really must think your opinion is that much better than anyone else's.
(updated 2012-06-26 19:39:12)

Huksi` wrote:

Darkwave wrote:

The one who was in control of armors/hp already had a bigger advantage but he was also able to control the ammo which gave him even more dmg. This is where the fault lies with the ammo system. The one in control does MORE dmg AND has MORE hp/armor. It wasn't balanced. And in my opinion, it only added frustrations.

As long you dont find a solution to this problem, dont bother...

>emphasizes his own point with bold, caps lock and italic text and underlining too

You really must think your opinion is that much better than anyone else's.

I'm stating that my argument (not opinion) has been solved with removal of weak ammo. The strong damage needs some balancing but thats it. The only thing you have been doing is spouting your "opinion" and giving shitty arguments.

Oh and did bold, caps locked, italic text and underlined it because somehow you still seem to ignore this issue and think we're better off with the previous system.
(updated 2012-06-26 22:02:54)

Darkwave wrote:


I'm stating that my argument (not opinion) has been solved with removal of weak ammo. The strong damage needs some balancing but thats it. The only thing you have been doing is spouting your "opinion" and giving shitty arguments.

Oh and did bold, caps locked, italic text and underlined it because somehow you still seem to ignore this issue and think we're better off with the previous system.

Well, yes, I do think so. Sure, it's an issue, but comebacks aren't impossible in Warsow and I always wanted the game to be controllable, hence I thought that it's better if control is harder to break (and harder to gain).

I still like the old system over this strong-ammo only. But maybe strong ammo only might be good to get new players (read: noobs who play for a week and then quit)

Gametype: On weapon pickup, remove all weak ammo, give n strong ammo. Ammomod with no mod.

Additional weapon pickups of the same type would be different, wouldn't they? You'd still be able to pick up weapons so that it refills your weak ammo, whether you use it or not. Can you currently do that with only strong ammo?

pg <3 hihi ;)

Huksi` wrote:

Darkwave wrote:


I'm stating that my argument (not opinion) has been solved with removal of weak ammo. The strong damage needs some balancing but thats it. The only thing you have been doing is spouting your "opinion" and giving shitty arguments.

Oh and did bold, caps locked, italic text and underlined it because somehow you still seem to ignore this issue and think we're better off with the previous system.

Well, yes, I do think so. Sure, it's an issue, but comebacks aren't impossible in Warsow and I always wanted the game to be controllable, hence I thought that it's better if control is harder to break (and harder to gain).

I still like the old system over this strong-ammo only. But maybe strong ammo only might be good to get new players (read: noobs who play for a week and then quit)

Well now we've come to the endless discussion about the fact that some people prefer a duel-game where it should be hard to regain control or less hard. I've always been against this, where making comebacks are almost impossible. Why? Because this is also related to the fact that you'll get huge game-deciders by the very first kill...

Rebalancing and weakening the damage output from the strong ammo slightly, could fix this in a good and bad way.

one of the reasons that its very hard to regain control (besides the down player having weak weapons only - lets not forget that the in control player wouldnt have much strong ammo either, 5 rockets is nothing, 50 shaft is also nothing...) is because the maps are tiny and the movement is very fast.

i quote you yesterday about wdm6 "whereever you go, he is there" - ie, you can put constant pressure on the enemy, steal all the items from him and control the main items as it only takes about 5 seconds to get to main powerup no matter where you are on the map...

often you lose control because of some close range cluster fuck where you're left asking 'wtf just happened?' as seeing as you (being the down player) are going to be under alot of pressure almost instantly, you might aswell just rush into close range and try your luck...

constant cess isnt much fun either...

also - 'rebalancing' - warsow has been through more than 7 'rebalancing's' and still it seems more is and will be needed...
(updated 2012-06-27 22:55:41)

thelawenforcer wrote:
i quote you yesterday about wdm6 "whereever you go, he is there" - ie, you can put constant pressure on the enemy, steal all the items from him and control the main items as it only takes about 5 seconds to get to main powerup no matter where you are on the map...

often you lose control because of some close range cluster fuck where you're left asking 'wtf just happened?' as seeing as you (being the down player) are going to be under alot of pressure almost instantly, you might aswell just rush into close range and try your luck...

I completely agree on this part...and also why I never like(d) (=read: hate) small maps. Wdm14,12,16,17 are a good example where its impossible to control everything and you can atleast get some space to get some armor again and do hit&runs on a decent manner.

Edit: Oh and with 'rebalancing', I simply meant, if we're going with strong ammo only then some weapons might need their damage adjusted, thats it. :)

PS: 5 strong RL vs weak or 50 LG vs LG weak is more then sufficient to bring a difference in a fight!
(updated 2012-06-27 23:08:27)