Shootmania : Warsow killer ? (plz read : shootmania = next esport big thing ?)

thelawenforcer wrote:
its hugely modable and that is infact one of the points of the game.

so is warsow :D


from what I only heard so far is that it will have one of these easie peasie level editors like trackmania
(updated 2012-05-19 20:04:28)

Thanks again for the input, mates.

One interesting detail is that the boss of Nadeo gives a lot of himself as regard community management, in being very active in the forum for example, always showing a certain example of kind and smart attitude. And my bet is that, combined with good modding tools, good promotion of User Generated Content, helped a lot to make one of the biggest online communities related to race games.
(updated 2012-05-20 14:00:25)

SolidFake wrote:

thelawenforcer wrote:
its hugely modable and that is infact one of the points of the game.

so is warsow :D


from what I only heard so far is that it will have one of these easie peasie level editors like trackmania

yes warsow is moddable, if you know how to code. i think one of the things that shootmania intends to do is open modding to the wider community, by using simple content editors such as the trackbuilder for trackmania, that was easy to use etc...

Mapping or creating any media does not involve coding.

stop hangin urself up on minor matters of speech, i bet u undestood what he was trying to point out

In fact, I think that Warsow is quite different from ShootMania, but some similarities makes them sometimes compared. They may even be complementary somehow, opposed on the color circle and much more a question of style than of better/lesser.

Also, I think Warsow is probably born from Quake success even though I don't know the story much. We all surf waves that are sometimes bigger, and sometimes we wait for them a long time. Maybe Warsow can surf again on the wave of a popular FPS, would it be ShootMania or another. I hope that the focus of the creative communities will go back on FPS thanks to more easy steps to jump in that we provide. Then, creative people deploy on their own land, would it be faster and more complex shooters or else.

We will see and I hope that you will enjoy it for a different aspects than Warsow, off course. You can then find new recruits to experience Warsow as well in it's community ^_^

Wish you best
Hylis
Nadeo

These people don't learn. Fast FPS have been dead since CS, and there's no way it will resurrect. All they can expect is a minor player base like QL had.
(updated 2012-05-20 19:39:18)

Hylis wrote:
In fact, I think that Warsow is...

Wish you best
Hylis
Nadeo

Welcome on board, Hylis =)

jal wrote:
These people don't learn. Fast FPS have been dead since CS, and there's no way it will resurrect. All they can expect is a minor player base like QL had.

WB, Jal =)
Plz fix your profile status, you're not a simple member, you're one of the founders of Warsow, ffs ! Anyway, back to your words, I think you're wrong. It's not about fast FPS or CS. It's about a short, partial, star system and business only, vision of esport, without ethics, and ignoring that gaming is a social activity.

I kind of agree with Jal in a way. The form under which FPS were made is probably less in the current time. It is a little like the 2d hardcore scrolling shooter before the FPS happened. Those became really experts driven while big competition where happening in Japan already. Now, if you say this because you think ShootMania is enterely part of this category, you may be wrong. While TrackMania has experts on it, there are also plenty of people who get there only to have good and simple time to enjoy. ShootMania has been designed also with that in mind and have gathered many opinions confirming that in that direction.

Esport is divided into many parts. The most visible one is like for the sport, the one on TV. But like SoLomonK says, that's far from other form of sports, or gaming in general. We are working to support the different pars. Unfortunately, you find more people chasing lights than social, and it makes it more difficult to find leaders to build things in that area. Anyway, we will see.

Plz fix your profile status, you're not a simple member, you're one of the founders of Warsow, ffs !

And he's kinda ashamed of that!

jal wrote:
These people don't learn. Fast FPS have been dead since CS, and there's no way it will resurrect. All they can expect is a minor player base like QL had.

Permanent small playerbase like QL/Q3/all quakes since dawn of time is all I hope for tbh. Gigantic minecraft explosion for FPS games obviously isn't coming ever again.

When the day comes that no one plays Warsow and Quakes anymore, it's end of online gaming for me. I just don't find myself enjoying any of these new age games (with exception of good off-line single player games).

well didnt new commercial nexuiz just got released and since shootmania is coming I think this genre still has potential.

crizis wrote:

jal wrote:
These people don't learn. Fast FPS have been dead since CS, and there's no way it will resurrect. All they can expect is a minor player base like QL had.

Permanent small playerbase like QL/Q3/all quakes since dawn of time is all I hope for tbh.

One thing is a non-profit, amateur, from fans for fans development and a very different one a comercial project. It has been stated several times that QL was a commercial failure.

And I don't think QL has a 10% of what Q3's playerbase was at its times. ¡And yet they claim Q3 was a failure! (I don't believe this one, but Carmack says so).

Let's be serious, Urban Terror probably beats QL's playerbase.

m0t0 wrote:
well didnt new commercial nexuiz just got released and since shootmania is coming I think this genre still has potential.

I've seen it for downloading, but it looked like a leak of the beta. Anyway, what I said before I apply it even more for Nexuiz's case.
(updated 2012-05-21 00:08:52)

Hylis wrote:
Now, if you say this because you think ShootMania is enterely part of this category, you may be wrong. While TrackMania has experts on it, there are also plenty of people who get there only to have good and simple time to enjoy. ShootMania has been designed also with that in mind and have gathered many opinions confirming that in that direction.

Y'know what? I've heard this many times before.

I wish you the best, really, but I'll only believe it after it happens.

SoLomonK wrote:

Plz fix your profile status

I don't think I can change that myself. :)

jal, Quake Live isn't a failure because the idea or the core game is bad. It's a failure because id Soft have turned into a shit-pile of a company. There are a hand full of people working on QL right now, some of them don't even know how to code and these people are supposed to provide the community with fresh premium-content regularly (at the beginning id was talking about monthy updates, now we can be happy if we get 1 update in 4-5 months)?!
id doesn't listen to the community. We want Anticheat, GTV, more Servers, Ladder-System. What do we get? Some shit CA maps that aren't played at all because in every gamemode appart from FFA, FreezeTag and the new ones which came out in the last update there is a stable mappool for the communty and noone even wants to try new maps especially if they are shit.
Next point is that with every update id breaks more than they fix. Since the last premium update 70% of the EU-playerbase gets between 5 and 20 more ms to their ping on German servers. The DE servers are the ones used the most in QL and now pertty much everyone has fucked up connection there. id blames the provider, but this happened exactly after the update, and instead of fixing it they just ignore it.

jal wrote:

SoLomonK wrote:

Plz fix your profile status

I don't think I can change that myself. :)

Yes you can :)

All is a question of profit goals vs costs. Obviously it's not possible to make q5 a cod killer, but if you manage to release a low-cost good casual fast fps you may very well have the reward you deserve. Gamers like fast paced flavors, and there is little reason something fail because it's fast fps. There is no such curse. This would be quite a feat to make revival happen, but imo it's a matter of time before someone make it happen.

Talking about Quake Live, I think they underestimated the importance of letting players do what they want. There is a difference of having some employees to look after a game than thousands of passionate players that truly play it and care for a better experience, or worse according to other players of the same game. That's the trick, the style is personal and a studio can hardly make for all styles. This is why Warsow is born probably, and it was with SDK. The difficulty with SDK is that it invites only a certain amount of players to be able to express their style and it takes time. On 100K players, maybe 100 would use it, and those would take months to do things. If you make tools that are 50 times faster and for 50 times more people, then you end up with 2500 times more creation. It is useless for one player, but it is fantastic for the buddies and others around the creators. The difficulty is to clearly see that the goal is not quality of some production, or a studio can make it, but diversity. Diversity is the key word for me. It is like forums, people and comments, it is all about diversity of styles. The Personal computer is about being personal. The first Person shooter is maybe personal as well. And this is also why Youtube is named Youtube. But this thing does not help you to make video, but just to share it. And sharing principles are as much important as creation ones. This is our focus since 10 years. We shall see what is the outcome soon.

And as Jal says,
"I'll only believe it after it happens"

I agree. The question is what is the percentage before. And for me, it is around 80%+

The difficulty with SDK is that it invites only a certain amount of players to be able to express their style and it takes time.

But this assumes people are interested in code-side of modding or that this is the only way (or even required) to mod the game.

This mostly is not the case - majority of modding/content creation with Warsow is undoubtedly mapping. There's hundreds of custom maps out there - racers have created *thousands* of maps. Sure, Netradiant needs certain level of commitment to learn it, but _isn't_ that hard, nowhere near of what's needed for programming.

Also gametype scripting is something in Warsow that makes modding considerably easier compared to classic quake mod making, and people with little to no coding experience have found their way with it, creating tons of little niche gametypes and other content which doesn't need any kind of programming. Most of them haven't been very long living, sure, but still they've kept the game alive and each of them had their 15 minutes of fame for sure.