Rockets are boring

Right now rockets are primarily used either for spam or +forward +attack +specialing someone and it's boring and pretty much why I stopped playing.

The kb on them is worthless - you hit someone in the knees and they take a step back. They're basically unusable in a fight beyond point blank because they're so slow. They rape at close range because they're so much easier to hit than anything else and outdamage everything but riot (I think?)

I want air rockets because they're awesome. I want combo rockets because that's baller. I want fast, high (vertical) kb, low damage rockets because I think that would be infinitely more fun than what we have now.

i think it may be to do with the way that knockback is calculated and how direct/splash hits are calculated. iirc, the knockback is calculated using two spheres and with vertical bias, but that was a while ago so it may no longer be the case.

another thing is the way that direct/splash hits are calculated: in order to address the splash bug (splash not doing damage on stairs etc). the way it does it is that certain hits below a certain height are treated as splash and others as direct, altho they both hit the model dead on. i imagine this might create a disparity in knockback results depending on where you hit the model (which in a sense it should).

simply increasing the kb isnt really an option - the problem will still remain, and with increased kb, you will just get more freak kb events, where a jump or whatever will send people skyhigh!

i agree though; natural, consistent and powerful knockback would go quite a way to improving the combat in this game.

same goes for lg imo
inb4 "go play quakelive"
(updated 2012-06-07 02:26:36)

in order to address the splash bug (splash not doing damage on stairs etc)

this is fixed in 0.7

thelawenforcer wrote:
i think it may be to do with the way that knockback is calculated and how direct/splash hits are calculated. iirc, the knockback is calculated using two spheres and with vertical bias, but that was a while ago so it may no longer be the case.

I have a faint memory of decreasing this bias somewhat so that kb should actually be little wilder. I think we even did that for promod before. I bet crizis has better memory than me.

RL has a candylauncher damage and with that kb, the opponent bounces everywhere, without getting any real damage. The big diffulty becomes predict the randomness of the game, instead of focusing on positioning and projectiles avoidance.
From this point of view, 0.5 was quite less random. Probably for the high stun on weapons.

yeah stun is too short, nearly inexistant. Making the game rushing instead of more slow. If you know you will not escape that fast cause of stun you will think two time before attacking or just being more distant.
Anyway it's why beta exist, we can just make test before release the game, no more promod plz.

u and ur passive duel player-pov. just mentioning that in ctf any stun is cruel as fuck, in fact some of us (prolly most, but didn't talk with too many about it) would even like it disabled/only active above ~500ups. also rockets still do massive dmg and the true kb seems even bigger to me. and in ctf it will always be a easy and super(b) effective way to attack/spamm the flagradius with rockets, they alrdy serve this extremely central purpose far too well, boost em even more and i'm out.

you always talk about ctf, but i find stun a great addition for slowing down the gameplay a little bit making it less random. It should also be added in ctf, even if ctf need a massive overhaul ( wsw-ctf don't get anylove thse day, maybe the gameplay should be a bit changed ). Also rl have been nerfed in 0.7.

I hate stun, but anyway, I can still blast people into the air with rockets and snatch an RA right from under their feet. Idk what the problem really is. I can air rocket them too.

I agree with mike, some of the guns are a little over powered like the RG and toning them down might add a little more intensity and action into the fights.

As for spam though, I spam more plasma and nades rather than rockets.

And isn't warsow a "fast paced first person shooter"? why are we trying to slow it down, like with stun. Stun is ridiculous and makes for some real "gaying" in games. Fuck the guy up in a trickjump and rush him with an RG while he's recuperating. This is just my opinion.

Well I disagree with this topic. Imo RL is powerful enough. I'm kind of an RL player anyway so I use it a lot. And it definitely doesn't feel too weak to me. But it shouldn't be much stronger than this.. I never wanted RL to be that BFG-like superweapon. (which it has pretty much been in many versions) That just makes the game into 1 weapon game and that's boring and annoying.

Fuck the guy up in a trickjump and rush him with an RG while he's recuperating

stun can do that, too.

as long as rl stays a much better closecombat weapon than rg things are like they should in warsow

VectorVanDoom wrote:
stun can do that too

Thats what Im saying :D

Huksi` wrote:
Well I disagree with this topic. Imo RL is powerful enough. I'm kind of an RL player anyway so I use it a lot. And it definitely doesn't feel too weak to me. But it shouldn't be much stronger than this.. I never wanted RL to be that BFG-like superweapon. (which it has pretty much been in many versions) That just makes the game into 1 weapon game and that's boring and annoying.

I'm saying it's too powerful when you use it like a dick. It's not so much of a problem in gts where you pick up weapons but nobody plays those anymore, so you just see like 80%+ RL usage every single game

MikeJS wrote:
It's not so much of a problem in gts where you pick up weapons but nobody plays those anymore, so you just see like 80%+ RL usage every single game

I play gametypes where the weapons are pickups. RL is always used alot, especially in CA (non pickup gametype) since lg is practically useless. Everyones just zippin around, no wonder its 80% usage with rockets.

Rockets have always been popular.

Rockets are popular because they are high damage, enforcing high grounding and forward play. If they get too good at mid distance and too low at direct damage there would be no point forwarding anymore. There was really a step toward more speed/less damage already, right now rocket damage is low compared to ql or qw which feature 100 damage direct (120 in qw), as well as speed is highest of all quakes (if i'm no wrong). Going further would imho kill the whole point of the forward-to-damage stuff.

Rl being powerful mean coping with rl monkeys but there is lg/eb whores as well, and to my opinion it shows there is balance after all, considering rl is the main weapon and should be most used anyway (talking about self-damage gts here).
(updated 2012-06-08 12:37:47)

as well as speed is highest of all quakes (if i'm no wrong)

Warsow rockets are 1200 UPS, whereas quakes have traditionally had 1000ups speed.

Reload is 850ms, which is 800ms in ql/q3/cpma. 0.5 had 950ms but this really was a joke.

BBQsauce wrote:

Rl being powerful mean coping with rl monkeys but there is lg/eb whores as well, and to my opinion it shows there is balance after all, considering rl is the main weapon and should be most used anyway (talking about self-damage gts here).

I completely agree. There's various kinds of weapon whores out there, that's just the way it is. If you can't fight against it then you need to change your approach against enemies that whore RL. For example, whore EB, get him from a distance.

nade insta anyone? :D no seriously im trying to learn angelscript to do it