Warsow 0.7 Release Cup 23rd June (with prize money)

Falconer wrote:
UPDATED!

http://tastyspleen.tv/?page_id=207

IT IS LIVE!!!

crizis wrote:
Community already bashed our attempts of making any real differences with weak ammo, so. Why have it at all? However, go give it a try - feedback from duelers like reload, darkwave, cremator, etc has been only positive so far.

Don't know why reload's opinions are so much important than others', he doesn't even play Warsow.

whilst i think warsow is better off with this change - the ammo system always felt incomplete - the better option was reform rather than removal. in a game where you can move across even the larger maps in under 5 seconds, its important to add items of interest in order to create 'detours'.

in this current iteration, this no longer exists and the ammo boxes are largely redundant unless you need ammo there on the spot.

whilst i understand the argument about how the popular and more casual gametypes dont feature weak ammo, there is still a place for the ammo system in the more hardcore or legacy gametypes.

lets not forget that the ammo system has been a 'sell' for warsow (altho, it often turned out to be a turn off and there have been many calls for reform in the past) it has been part of the game since its conception and to see it go a few days before warsow supposed final release without more consideration is a shame.

Whilst the change is positive on the whole, it could be even more positive with a bit more consideration.

I suggested for instance - and it seems to have been a relatively well received idea, that retains the strong weapons whilst keeping the ammo system as an important part of warsow dm gametypes - to have weapons come with only a small amount of ammo - say 5 rockets - whereas rocket ammo packs give you a further 20 rockets or something.

I think this would be a compromise that is both beneficial for the gameplay, intuitive, and means that warsow doesnt have to kill off a feature a few days before its final release in order to placate a few quakers.

reform the ammo system, dont just kill it like this...

thelawenforcer wrote:

I suggested for instance - and it seems to have been a relatively well received idea, that retains the strong weapons whilst keeping the ammo system as an important part of warsow dm gametypes - to have weapons come with only a small amount of ammo - say 5 rockets - whereas rocket ammo packs give you a further 20 rockets or something.

That sounds like a valid point and good idea.

we decided to reduce the amount of ammo players receive with weapon pickups at least for some of the weapons while watching the cup.. at least the rl desperately needs this kind of treatment

thelawenforcer wrote:
whilst i think warsow is better off with this change - the ammo system always felt incomplete - the better option was reform rather than removal. in a game where you can move across even the larger maps in under 5 seconds, its important to add items of interest in order to create 'detours'.

in this current iteration, this no longer exists and the ammo boxes are largely redundant unless you need ammo there on the spot.

whilst i understand the argument about how the popular and more casual gametypes dont feature weak ammo, there is still a place for the ammo system in the more hardcore or legacy gametypes.

lets not forget that the ammo system has been a 'sell' for warsow (altho, it often turned out to be a turn off and there have been many calls for reform in the past) it has been part of the game since its conception and to see it go a few days before warsow supposed final release without more consideration is a shame.

Whilst the change is positive on the whole, it could be even more positive with a bit more consideration.

I think this would be a compromise that is both beneficial for the gameplay, intuitive, and means that warsow doesnt have to kill off a feature a few days before its final release in order to placate a few quakers.

reform the ammo system, dont just kill it like this...

qft

imho duel gameplay with this strong ammo-only mod feels so aim-heavy, you are able to have a strong weapon easily on your hands and rape your opponent's stack so ridiculously fast... Fucking up with the whole idea of the gametype. Makes item control and positioning much less important than before, as seen in the cup.

Thanks for a awesome cup as always Falcky. Only strong made wsw duel more fun, thanks for that devs. And thanks to Jehar nvc and killme for a good stream.

About the only strong.

+ More fun
+ More aim +++++ more pro... jwzr said it all
+ You need to have good positions, it hurts to get hit now.
+ Control of weapons and amo. Feels more natural to me.

overall I like

This from a n00bs POV.

Good variety to that fucking run-to-the-face-and-spam-million-random-rockets-and-hope-for-the-best style (c) Delirium :D
(updated 2012-06-24 03:30:58)

SkulP wrote:

imho duel gameplay with this strong ammo-only mod feels so aim-heavy,

ofc good aimers get rewarded more, and thats just correct because they got something you dont, but if you think you are the better player you should be able to compensate that by brain. just look at rapha owning everyone in QL, yet has worse aim even than me. he owns top-aimers who hit 50%LG and whatnot, just by reading their game and setting up traps, timing 4 items to the second etc)
TL;DR get aim or win by using ur brain
(updated 2012-06-24 03:15:53)

Great cup, and amazing games. Thanks to the players, organizers and casters, and also the dev team.

jwzr__ wrote:

SkulP wrote:

imho duel gameplay with this strong ammo-only mod feels so aim-heavy,

ofc good aimers get rewarded more, and thats just correct because they got something you dont, but if you think you are the better player you should be able to compensate that by brain. just look at rapha owning everyone in QL, yet has worse aim even than me. he owns top-aimers who hit 50%LG and whatnot, just by reading their game and setting up traps, timing 4 items to the second etc)
TL;DR get aim or win by using ur brain

well the thing is the balance between good aim/good map control is broken right now. I bet not even rapha could win a warsow duel against someone with better aim than him at this point. Anyways its stupid to do these comparations, what im trying to say is that "doing what rapha does so well" should be just as an important skill as good aim ito win a match, and atm it just isnt...

SkulP wrote:

jwzr__ wrote:

SkulP wrote:

imho duel gameplay with this strong ammo-only mod feels so aim-heavy,

ofc good aimers get rewarded more, and thats just correct because they got something you dont, but if you think you are the better player you should be able to compensate that by brain. just look at rapha owning everyone in QL, yet has worse aim even than me. he owns top-aimers who hit 50%LG and whatnot, just by reading their game and setting up traps, timing 4 items to the second etc)
TL;DR get aim or win by using ur brain

well the thing is the balance between good aim/good map control is broken right now. I bet not even rapha could win a warsow duel against someone with better aim than him at this point. Anyways its stupid to do these comparations, what im trying to say is that "doing what rapha does so well" should be just as an important skill as good aim ito win a match, and atm it just isnt...

every player playing at the level of good aimers should automatically compensate that lack of aim (a skill he should work on) with his superior brain. know what i mean? i mean just look at me, basically every experienced duel player who doesnt even hit 30%LG can rape the shit out of me, despite my (in most cases) superior aim.

BTW my mind is pretty fucked up atm , im liable for nothing :=)
(updated 2012-06-24 04:08:29)

My impression is that this mod is quite much EB based now. All the other weapons need a kind of prediction to aim and their average damage (except for PG and RG) is much less compared to that weapon.

In contrary to you , I have actually PLAYED atleast 1 game of duel , and i can say its way more rocket based than before (depends on the player ofc; and LG is still too hard to hit considering the small knockback and stun contrary to strong RL) . played some vs puLse and even i played a shitload with RL , doing lame LG-to-RL combos just because RL is so much stronger. just my 2cents, ofc im noob in duel blabla

EDIT: strong plasma is also still op as fuck
(updated 2012-06-24 04:12:46)

I played some duels as well. RL makes you fly in the air when you are getting shoots from it, but the average damage you get is pretty much nothing in my opinion, expecially now that its splashdamage has been reduced again.
Anyway, bb.

as the for the current ammo system. It feels Ok for me after 5 years of playing, but it was quite hard to understand the ammo system in very begging (afaik may/june 2007).

I have some ideas how it can be reformed (not so original):

1) Keep strong and week weapons, but ammo boxes not only add strong bullets, but also convert weak bullets to strong. IE when you pick up EB - you get 5 weak shots, when you pick up EB ammo - you get 10 strong shots and 0 weak shots. But when you pick up weapon - all you ammo convert to weak back. So at the same time player can have only one type of bullets for the each weapon.

2) Make the difference between WEAK and STRONG ammos more significant. IE: weak ammos can be more friendly for the defensive/ninja players, who usually hit and hide; strong ammos - for the arcade/attack players, who trying to catch their enemies and kill in the middle/close ranges.

adem wrote:
as the for the current ammo system. It feels Ok for me after 5 years of playing, but it was quite hard to understand the ammo system in very begging (afaik may/june 2007).

I have some ideas how it can be reformed (not so original):

1) Keep strong and week weapons, but ammo boxes not only add strong bullets, but also convert weak bullets to strong. IE when you pick up EB - you get 5 weak shots, when you pick up EB ammo - you get 10 strong shots and 0 weak shots. But when you pick up weapon - all you ammo convert to weak back. So at the same time player can have only one type of bullets for the each weapon.

2) Make the difference between WEAK and STRONG ammos more significant. IE: weak ammos can be more friendly for the defensive/ninja players, who usually hit and hide; strong ammos - for the arcade/attack players, who trying to catch their enemies and kill in the middle/close ranges.

1. idea is good, 2. has been tried many times but making it be balanced is very hard so forget that part.

jwzr__ wrote:

SkulP wrote:

imho duel gameplay with this strong ammo-only mod feels so aim-heavy,

ofc good aimers get rewarded more, and thats just correct because they got something you dont, but if you think you are the better player you should be able to compensate that by brain. just look at rapha owning everyone in QL, yet has worse aim even than me. he owns top-aimers who hit 50%LG and whatnot, just by reading their game and setting up traps, timing 4 items to the second etc)
TL;DR get aim or win by using ur brain

Yes but you totally missed the point there. Aim is very important, whether there is 2 ammos or 1, but still, I agree with the guy here, it's way too aim heavy if you take the strong ammo system away.

only strong ammo?

RIP warsow.

Only strong ammo? :O Sounds like a good thing for wsw. Wish I had a pc to try it out. Anyway I won't spend too much time flaming on this forum but just wanted to drop my opinion.

Laws idea was interesting.

I have to say that I really liked Laws idea, if weapon only has 5 or 3 rockets(same idea for the other weapons), you have to rely much more on the ammo. Which gives pretty much the same effect.
(updated 2012-06-24 15:14:42)