0.7 CTF Thread

Huksi` wrote:
Defenders carrying they own flag is worst idea I have heard in a long time. It will just be abused and then you can go drop your flag to unreachable places, or generally very hard ones... it's just bad and would be abused. There's no reason for such a stupid change.

FFS, this is allready possible with the present situation. If you remove the ability to drop your own flag then there would be no abuse.

jal wrote:

http://youtu.be/So8YrCNobRM?t=2m5s

That's 0.3, which is the version that exploited ctf up to the point it couldn't continue being the same.

BTW, in this thread someone doubted about the posibility of capturing under 6 seconds. I tried to find videos like this one and failed. Well, there it is: Kolio makes the wctf1 flag run in 4'30.

That's the time of the flagreset timer, not the fasctap time.

neszyemk wrote:

That's the time of the flagreset timer, not the fasctap time.

You are right, sir. He makes it in 5'30.

neszyemk wrote:

Huksi` wrote:
Defenders carrying they own flag is worst idea I have heard in a long time. It will just be abused and then you can go drop your flag to unreachable places, or generally very hard ones... it's just bad and would be abused. There's no reason for such a stupid change.

FFS, this is allready possible with the present situation. If you remove the ability to drop your own flag then there would be no abuse.

Yes, and if you do as I suggested - have enemy flag indicated in hud whenever it's not carried, then you can't hide it as you broadcast its location to enemy team. I suppose players could hide with the flag, but that's a big risk as you remove yourself from game making it 3v4.

Also the reason for such a 'stupid' change is because timers suck, but fast caps also suck. If you believe that ctf is perfect as it is then fine, but seeing as I think you started this thread I don't think you do.

Hi hoshi btw, good to hear from you :)

neszyemk wrote:

Huksi` wrote:
Defenders carrying they own flag is worst idea I have heard in a long time. It will just be abused and then you can go drop your flag to unreachable places, or generally very hard ones... it's just bad and would be abused. There's no reason for such a stupid change.

FFS, this is allready possible with the present situation. If you remove the ability to drop your own flag then there would be no abuse.

yes there would, go to a hard place, then /kill. It does the same thing.
I can tell you I know like 15 spots where I'd drop the flag in every map, that are hard to reach or just generally in a position where enemy wouldn't consider going. I myself would abuse the shit out of that feature.
(updated 2012-07-29 17:01:19)

What about the thing I suggest to make that useless?

Which one?

Also the reason for such a 'stupid' change is because timers suck, but fast caps also suck.

timers suck

fast caps also suck

>implying this idiotic idea would not suck even harder than those

Explain why it is bad without using that same example with flag abuse, which btw. can be removed by removing flag drop and suicide when carrying own flag.

offtopic'ish: it's 5.7s, but i got demo of neszy doing real 5.3 with igun:)

neszyemk wrote:
Explain why it is bad without using that same example with flag abuse, which btw. can be removed by removing flag drop and suicide when carrying own flag.

Sure. If dropping your own flag somewhere wasn't possible at all, I'd still probably dislike it. Because right now, you atleast know where the enemy flag is (pretty much) always located. But if defenders could carry the flag, you'd always have to kill the defender. You have no idea where the flag is, and they will do anything that you can't kill them, this means lame hiding and running around all over the map, which makes even the process of taking the flag very annoying. That's why I don't want this change.

The hiding bit is a detail. You could make it visible through walls on hud. You can also make it auto-return after a timeout on suicide.

If you think killing a def is too hard then what about killing the off that stole the flag. It's pretty much the same situation reversed, he can run around, hide and lame but you are cool with that.

But that's different situation in general. Having offs be able to do laming like that doesn't justify defs being able to do the same. Don't you think it's enough that offs can be lame with the flag? Why do you want even more laming?

So basically, what you're saying is that you're too lazy to chase people. Might not be the right gametype for you then.

Why do you even start this thread if you don't want to consider anything that might be different?

To everyone but huksi: perhaps having hud indicator show where flag is even when carried might remove any abuse and force defs to play more defensive.

I thought of that. While carrying your own flag you could be visible to others, but wouldn't that make it too easy?

Though, if you remove suicide and flag drop while carrying your own flag there would be no such abuse. If you are talking about abusing it by running away and hiding, well, as you said, position indicators would be the best thing to prevent it, even though you can also abuse this system in its current state.

Ye, these are things to consider.

The reason perhaps indicators would work is that then defs can't endlessly run, and the best defence will be to play positional and with your teammate. Also stops the hiding/suicide.

I suppose it could be tested relatively easily with and without?

Btw, what do farm, crusty and pikku think of this?

neszyemk wrote:
So basically, what you're saying is that you're too lazy to chase people. Might not be the right gametype for you then.

Why are you saying that it's not the right gametype for me, when you're the one here who never plays it? You probably still have that computer from stone age with which u play with like 0.5 fps

I said that because you want to slow the gameplay down. Why is it such a big trouble to chase a flagcarrier? If you have to chase 2 flagcarriers, it will require more tactic and teamplay.

As it is now it's just spamming the flagspot with rockets and grenades which is just not fun. And yet you want it to be even slow by using spawndelay. Now that would be ridiculous.

thelawenforcer wrote:
Farm, the issue with these timers is that they create these horrible spam and rush fights when stealing and capping

that is, because def follows efc _into_base_, trying to rescue, when they should stay at the flag.
sometimes you even have 8 people in a room, which was just intended for 2v2 max (wdm10 / wctf6 - wdm10ra-room). now, slowing down the efc would avoid that in a way, that efc never reaches homebase. although, i think 900 ups might be a fair average for the higher speeds in a regular game. flag pickable by own team increases cross caps and thats not what we want either. so we can cross each idea of the list.
sth that can be hold against flag timers is, that they make the game mechanics more complicated and in the end seem not thought through thoroughly. but, i started ctf with flagtimers and havent played a lot of ctf before, so i couldnt really tell if it was unusual. i still like em.
after all we should look in a different direction and follow pikku.

Pikku wrote:
Make moa maps, kthx.

Huksi` wrote:
I can tell you I know like 15 spots where I'd drop the flag in every map

please do, it's valid to my interests.