Catharsis - paswdm1 (Alpha 1)

In light of the 1.0 release of Warsow, I decided to construct a duel map in between work with UE3.

Download (Beta 2):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/paswdm1_b2.zip

Screenshots:













Any suggestions are, of course, welcome. Thanks for trying it out!
(updated 2012-11-08 06:02:58)

I take it you are EmeraldTiger from Q3W? Nice to have you working on a map for Warsow :)
And indeed we call Electrobolt "EB", "RG" stands for Riotgun (which is the Shotgun).

Will download and test the map and see if I can come up with some insight and feedback.

I'll try it out and see what I think o it :) Always great with new maps!

I vote for changing all wooden boards in every map to steel girders.

As I spot a former Q3 mapper I want to point him to this info on Warsow lighting
(updated 2012-08-08 23:27:17)

I played it for a while now against bots, it was very fun to just jump around on and seem to have a nice layout, I'm looking forward to see how the brushwork develops in the coming versions. The only real negative thing I could find in this alpha was those long line of sight corridors and a few overscaled parts which you mentioned yourself.

I got an error when i try to download.
(updated 2012-08-09 00:22:24)

Just copy/paste the url.

ok thanks.

Tested and I must say that this was as typical q3 mapper trying to map for warsow 1st attempt that I thought.Not sure how it has been earlier but for some time Warsow has been so unique that you cant map for warsow like you would map for ql/q3 or any other similar game.

In general the layouts in warsow maps are more simple,got less different levels but still have enough depth.

Play more warsow and study warsow maps.History has taught that you need to understand warsow duel in order to map for it.

Also things to change:

All stairs to 16/8 scale.

I would replace jumppads with some sort of trickjumps.especially i would rebuilt the whole jp spot near mh.

simplify scaling.right now there are way too many different width hallways.
simplify layout.movement is way too cramped.

remove mg ammo.Its almost useless.

Duel maps dont often have this many shards+hp bubble so probably remove some of them.

Havent played yet but I think it looks like that the one who gets ra also has advantage for ya so there is huge imbalance between sides when the ra side also has shards.

these small doorways are way too small so make them bigger.atleast 168 or 192 in height.

the 90 degree corner between ya and gl should be 45 degree so that walljumping between those 2 items doesnt feel that stupid
Few pictures:



height of these hallways are ridiculous and you had several of these.




I always clip ceilings like this that are above stairs.




doorways like this just makes eb'ing and rl spamming possible so probably lower the ceilling.
(updated 2012-08-09 01:23:31)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/map_paswdm1_a1.pk3

i liked the map so far... fun to jump around and trying to avoid jumppads with trickjumps etc.
Also the movement goes smooth but still challenging imo.

Cant say much about duel balance tho

"I always clip ceilings like this that are above stairs."

Would that mean you could rocketjump all the way up ? Also it gives more tactical stairfights cause of the hight of the ceiling... (grenades, jumps etc.)

Uhm and i cant see why a map in warsow cant be quakeish... the movement here is still warsow while i kinda like quakes different levels of maps which would be interesting in warsow i think

You can tell from the screen shots that this map will be fun to move around. Hope crizis puts it on his servers so it can be played.

@moto stay off the crack

The map look really cool so far, loving the openness actually. Looks like it'll make a great CA map. I can see where m0t0 is coming from though, jump pads are nice, but minimizing them for a more opportune trick jump is a great idea. Warsow is as graceful in its movement as it is in its shooting. There needs to be a fine balance between the two in each map.

A good example for over the top tricking, but still fun as hell, might be wctf1. That map has wild tricks on it, especially where the pillars are cut at an angle that favors ramp jumps.

If you could add ideas from that style into yours, but keep the combat-centric appeal it would be great.

upped to esport servs.

didn't check it myself yet but ye, stairs should have 8 unit height and 8 or 16 unit width. usually 16, but 8 is fine for some small stairs like in wdm2.

law its not opinion its fact that you cannot map for wsw like you would map for ql/q3 since there are actually differences in movement,hitbox size=player size,weapons,player preferences,jump height etc that mapper should consider when he maps.Besides in history q3 mappers have showed that you cannot create good quality map without adapting.Ofc there is no need for adaption if mapper aims for medium quality or whatever but then again I dont see point in mapping.

the solutions dont just simply work in same way in warsow as they would in quakes.Faster the mapper understands this, the better.
(updated 2012-08-09 12:41:43)

its fun to move around the wider areas. the small cramped parts of the map arent so cool, i would look at changing the way they connect as these tiny hallways are no fun to fight in.

with respect to the RA room, the RL is probably too close to RA - perhaps it could be moved up on top of the ledge above RA? with the jumppad providing an easy exit from RA, im not sure you will see big amounts of plasma spam from that ledge. perhaps changing the jp into a ramp so that with a bit of speed you can still get to top of ledge, but doesnt provide easy exit for someone waiting for RA?





considering the decision the decision to leave the eb out for now, perhaps you could even open certain areas up a bit more. this being one example.





i say this as open areas will make it easier to catch/trap players and force them to commit to the fight as the eb is no longer there to damage players that are avoiding fights.

a map with great potential, looking forward to seeing how it evolves.

@moto sure there are subtle differences between quake and warsow maps, but its not like the differences are massive as most of the game is the same., this guys map is already alot more interesting and catered to warsow than many hardcore warsowers attempts at making warsow maps.
(updated 2012-08-09 14:38:02)

i wish people comments my maps like that :>
armors placement looks random imho, put them in intrestting place.
like moto said scaling look weird at certain place.
Maybe less jumpad and more trickjump.

Cool to see you map for Warsow. :)

The basic skeleton of the map you've got is fun to run around on, so you're headed in the right direction. You'll have to get creative and add some neat trickjumps to each room to keep the ADHD kids' minds occupied, otherwise they'll say your map isn't built for Warsow. Don't clutter it up too much though, because it's really nice and refreshing to run around on a map as open as this! Keep it smooth, and don't add annoying trickjumps just for the sake of it. For an example of annoying geometry, see all of wdm16.

It's weird to see curved walls in Warsow, but I'm not opposed to it.

I have no idea how it'll play, so I can't really comment on that.

Alright I'll have a go at giving some suggestions with my fairly limited knowledge about mapping.

1)


This corner feels a bit boring I dunno if it's because the ceiling is too high or there really isnt anything there. but it just feels like a giant straight hallway that leads to mega. Nothing really interesting about it.

2)


This connection feels extremely cramped. I guess it makes a little sense since it's near a really weak armor like GA though. Meaning that its easy to defend which is probably a good thing. The thing that bothers me about this section is that it's fairly difficult to move through. It could also be that it's extremely dark there at the moment but I know that's just a detail issue you will iron out later on.

3)


The RA area mainly from lower to the higher point bothers me a bit. I think it's because it feels like you built a staircase out of jumpads to get up to the highest level of that part of the map. I also don't like the jump pad behind RA. It seems rushed and I think you might be able to think of a concept more creative than that.

Also I feel like that the RA should be on the top level anyway since there aren't near as many options to get to that top level. I think you did a good job with your yellow armor though. It has a high amount of value being that it is fairly dangerous to go for.

4)


This lower area feels pretty baron wise. It also feels fairly dangerous to go down there. I feel like you're a giving up a fair amount of control on the map for being down there but there is no reward for putting yourself in that situation.

5) Since I'm a pretty big fan of small and tight maps I think you might benefit from having some teles. I don't know if it's just not your style to put in teles this early in the phase of mapping or not but I think that you can solve some problems and make the map a little more interesting with the use of teleporters.

Overall I think that the map is fun to jump around on even though I'm pretty newbie at warsow movement. I also like the size of the layout mostly because I suck at making bigger maps like this so I envy you a bit. I also really like your concept of the Y path. It connects the ra/mega/ya rooms together and it also has some nice jumps off the wall to get to it from RA room. Like the jumps off the pillars and stuff. I tried to be as negative as I could in this post because I know people pointing out simple things that they like aren't that helpful so don't get too pissed at me.

Thank you for your suggestions guys! And especially crizis for uploading the map to the esport servers. Would love to see some tournament-level gameplay on it once I progress further with the project.

Here is the second alpha with some various gameplay improvements:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/map_paswdm1_a2.pk3

Changes:

- Added two teleporters - one replaces the JP in the MH room, and one located in the lower areas that takes you to the new MG's position. (formerly GL)

- Replaced various jump pads with (tested) trick jump sections.

- Swapped GL and MG positions. Now a GL user can spam the upper hallway, the hallway behind them, or the lower area - so it's in a better tactical position than before.

- Moved PG to the curved hallway where low 25+ health was. (across from mega) A PG user can spam someone trying to grab mega and head towards the PG or the new tele.

- Moved RL to upper ledge where PG was. This makes the RA more dangerous to grab and allows you to control the player's paths by spamming the various exits when they grab RA while you are here with the RL. This should make for some interesting plays IMO.

- Moved SG to the corner of the upper walkway in the RA room. A SG user can use this position to land a shot on someone who used the new trickjump after grabbing RA.

- Moved LG to the lower hallway where SG was. This should give more of an incentive to travel to the lower corridors.

- Removed the armor shards and 5+ health bubbles.

- Carved out a 45-degree angle between YA and MG so the jump between them isn't as awkward.

- Carved out a 45-degree angle above the LG in the lower corridors to ensure players don't bump their heads jumping down while strafe-jumping.

- Opened up the staircases near RA.

- Opened up various corridors and doorways for a more navigable experience. Removed the 25+ health in the corner near GA. (One concern I have is that there's now a large line of sight from the RA room to the MH room as a result of adding the breathing space, which is partially why it was cramped in the first place - so let me know if there is any adverse affect on gameplay because of this.)

@m0to: Regarding the height of the hallways, could you please elaborate on your reasoning for lowering the ceilings? Does it allow for more ceiling spam, etc.? I'm not entirely sure, so some insight into this would be appreciated.

P.S. Anyone have any idea how to change the thread title? There's no "advanced mode" for me to use, so it's stuck with the Alpha 1 tag on there still.
(updated 2012-08-20 00:02:27)

like the improvements in general. not sure about the teleporters tho, particularly the YA one. the entrance is in a spot where players might often get caught out (bottom of the map, openish area) the exit however provides them with atleast 4 or 5 very quick exit/escape routes after using the teleporter.