Topic: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

THE GOOD
+Rocket balance is OUTSTANDING, Don't change a thing!
+wdm11 is a great addition the the maplist, very reminiscent of ztndm3 (Blood Run)
+The new wdm6 looks great! While I was initially skeptical about the art change, the new textures are A+
+The engine optimizations ARE noticeable. The framerate is much more stable and the action is fluid and smooth.
+The new movement may feel different at first, but with cg_oldmovement 1 the game plays faster than ever before.
+The improved dash is a nice touch.
+Shotgun arc is an improvement
+Dash animations = great
+Mac OSX support
+Bobot is a great addition to the cast of characters. He is probably my favorite model.
+The graphical profiles are a great touch
+The tutorials were very much needed, considering how hard Valve fanboys find it to pull off simple strafe jumping.
+Instagib is cool

THE BAD
-EDIT: I like the new nades now.
-Listing maps by their actual names is a random, and somewhat annoying change. Now you have to scroll through the unorganized list of names and click on each one to determine their gametype. Bring back the old system. It made alot more sense. Also the scrollbar is broken. Maybe add a toggle for mapnames vs the "quake-style" labels.
-wdm15 looks worse than the test version. It's too dark and doesn't look as good as it used to IMO. Fortunately you can import the old version. (although theres one glitched texture on the boxes upstairs)
-Several options in the menu that were present in previous versions have been removed such as "show fps", "show speed", "marks on wall" ect.
-A couple of the new maps fail to live up to the level of quality present in 0.32. Poor ammo placement, flow, ect.
-Various graphical glitches throughout the maps, the most obvious being wca1.
-There should be an option or console command to switch to the old explosion effects. Some people do not like the new marks.
-Plasma Gun still seems a bit on the weak side
-The new render updates are impressive, but I think there should still be maps in the vein of Acid's wdm2 as far as artstyle. Like many have said before, some of the maps look a bit washed out and lacking in color.

THE VERDICT: After eight months of anticipation, the WSW team has delivered another masterpiece, marred only by surprising technical glitches and a disappointing grenade launcher.

Last edited by JonH4x (2008-01-28 17:21)

2

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

JonH4x wrote:

THE BAD
-The new GL just feels wrong. The strong-ammo nades explode on impact and the regular discs have too much gravity. The old GL felt GREAT, even if it was a "spam" weapon. The effective GL was one of the many things that made the weapon balance stand out for me. IMO i think you should just bring back more or less the 0.32 incarnation, but at the very least you need to ditch the change to the strong ammo projectile. Right now strong ammo disc just feels like a RL shot with gravity. If you fix anything in 0.41, FIX THIS!
-Listing maps by their actual names is a random, and somewhat annoying change. Now you have to scroll through the unorganized list of names and click on each one to determine their gametype. Bring back the old system. It made alot more sense. Also the scrollbar is broken. Maybe add a toggle for mapnames vs the "quake-style" labels.
-wdm15 looks worse than the test version. It's too dark and doesn't look as good as it used to IMO. Fortunately you can import the old version. (although theres one glitched texture on the boxes upstairs)
-Was the jump height reduction really necessary?
-Several options in the menu that were present in previous versions have been removed such as "show fps", "show speed", "marks on wall" ect.
-A couple of the new maps fail to live up to the level of quality present in 0.32. Poor ammo placement, flow, ect.
-Various graphical glitches throughout the maps, the most obvious being wca1.
-There should be an option or console command to switch to the old explosion effects. Some people do not like the new marks.
-Plasma Gun still seems a bit on the weak side
-The new render updates are impressive, but I think there should still be maps in the vein of Acid's wdm2 as far as artstyle. Like many have said before, some of the maps look a bit washed out and lacking in color.

I only look at negatives cuz thats how I was raised.
-GL eh w/e
-Maps by actual names is a bad choice. The filenames have the gametype they're for in the name so people can at least figure it out. Please bring back filename sorting.
-wdm15 is better.
-Yes it was, game feels more solid
-Everyone wants more menu options, bring back the old options! tongue
-Don't blame the testers for the maps, they'll get there in time tongue
-Yeah yeah, missing textures...
-New explosions (and cartoon rox) ftw
-Plasma gun is STRONG, use it more smile
-Maps seem fine to me smile

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

Jon, I must admit, your insight is pretty darn good.

At this stage of development for a free, competitive FPS, Warsow is thoroughly impressive.

In my opinion, aside from what Jon mentions concerning gameplay, very little needs to be changed.
(As a RL spammer, I was very pleased with the increased splash damage. big_smile )

On another note, the more great maps and character models that are added to this game, the better. smile

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

sepht wrote:

I only look at negatives cuz thats how I was raised.

Epic.

ETR: I race fast maps for eat break.
I am not canadanese.

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

agreed wholeheartedly with Jon, especially on the BAD side of things.

The new render updates are impressive, but I think there should still be maps in the vein of Acid's wdm2 as far as artstyle. Like many have said before, some of the maps look a bit washed out and lacking in color.

this ruined Warsow for me.. i hope the textures and artstyle gets reconsidered.

blaah!

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

i think a lot of ppl will dislike 0.4 for not having acid's maps.
maybe try to ask him again nicely if they can be included?
i mean wdm2 has its flaws with the GL being imba but its soooo popular tongue

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

jannis wrote:

i think a lot of ppl will dislike 0.4 for not having acid's maps.
maybe try to ask him again nicely if they can be included?
i mean wdm2 has its flaws with the GL being imba but its soooo popular tongue

He didn't say he wants it out. He doesn't give the source so the dev team can't recompile it and therefore it's not shipped with Warsow 0.4 as understandable.

www.warsownews.net - Now with NEW content

8

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

JonH4x wrote:

-Was the jump height reduction really necessary?

Don't you know jump higher (but fall faster). On my map I made and on dm3 I now bump my head on the ceiling in various places where I didn't before.

Agree on the gl, and on the map names, and most of what you said.

<kckzi> 36, is that the length of ur dick... in MILLIMETERS?

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

JonH4x wrote:

-The new GL just feels wrong. The strong-ammo nades explode on impact and the regular discs have too much gravity. The old GL felt GREAT, even if it was a "spam" weapon. The effective GL was one of the many things that made the weapon balance stand out for me. IMO i think you should just bring back more or less the 0.32 incarnation, but at the very least you need to ditch the change to the strong ammo projectile. Right now strong ammo disc just feels like a RL shot with gravity. If you fix anything in 0.41, FIX THIS!

Kinda agree with you on this one, not that I know much about the previous versions. But grenades don't really seem like grenades in this game :x They explode on the floor which is pretty weird imo (this is with strong ammo then I guess. Grenades should bounce and MAYBE explode on impact with another player, not the floor..

JonH4x wrote:

-Listing maps by their actual names is a random, and somewhat annoying change. Now you have to scroll through the unorganized list of names and click on each one to determine their gametype. Bring back the old system. It made alot more sense. Also the scrollbar is broken. Maybe add a toggle for mapnames vs the "quake-style" labels.

I think listing maps with their actual names is better, maybe its just me, but I can't always remember which is which when they all have numbers and shit tongue Maybe put the gametype behind it though, to stop the confusion.

JonH4x wrote:

-Plasma Gun still seems a bit on the weak side

Hmm the plasma gun actually is pretty strong if you ask me, had alot of kills with it on dm atleast big_smile

10

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

-Maps by actual names is a bad choice. The filenames have the gametype they're for in the name so people can at least figure it out. Please bring back filename sorting.

Did you actually try clicking on a map? If there's a recognizable gametype pattern in mapname, the UI will suggest a gametype in status bar.
I figure that people that complain about the new maplist UI didn't actually try using it, it was like "ZOMG!!!11 NO FILENAMES!!!11 WTF?!!!11 CLOSE!!!11", so what the hell.

`36: stop making me feel retarded

11

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

C'mon, no need to stress. He did a balanced list of things he like and doesn't. It's just fine. TBH, I still find the maplist names confusing myself, so I understand he finds it too.

No pigs were harmed in the making of this game.

¡Puxa Sporting!

12

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

machinemessiah wrote:

Did you actually try clicking on a map? If there's a recognizable gametype pattern in mapname, the UI will suggest a gametype in status bar.
I figure that people that complain about the new maplist UI didn't actually try using it, it was like "ZOMG!!!11 NO FILENAMES!!!11 WTF?!!!11 CLOSE!!!11", so what the hell.

sad

It's not so much confusing as it is counter-intuitive. All of the maps should be in order by filename.

Last edited by JonH4x (2008-01-23 17:09)

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

I think it would be not so hard to make a two-column sortable table with both filenames and map names. smile

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

Agree with just about everything you stated there, especially the things about GL.

Zap wrote:
OK, one thing I didn't consider: I'm on Linux now.

15

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

astsmtl wrote:

I think it would be not so hard to make a two-column sortable table with both filenames and map names. smile

You think wrong

`36: stop making me feel retarded

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

We don't type "callvote map chromo dynamic" so why should the maps be listed by their name?  It IS counter-intuitive.  Currently the maps are listed by name in alphabetical order meaning you got a dm map, then a ctf map, then a da map, then a da map, and so forth.  They should be listed by their map type.

We care about new players right?  Let make it easier for them to remember the maps.


Me:  Ok, so you type "callvote map <mapname>, go ahead choose the map you want.
Player:  Ok, I like Supersym

console: callvote map Supersym
No such map available on this server 

Player:  Wtf?
Me:  You've got to use the map's filename =/
Player:  How would I know what that is?
Me:  Well, that map is wdm9.
Player:  Ok, then why isn't it called wdm9 from the menu?
Me:  Ahh long story!


Right?  Right?!   tongue

Last edited by devi0us (2008-01-23 20:41)

#warsow.na @ Quakenet
North American Warsow

INVERT MOUSE FTW!~

17

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

Once new players learn how to type 'callvote map' they can't be viewed 'new players' anymore.

`36: stop making me feel retarded

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

machinemessiah wrote:

Once new players learn how to type 'callvote map' they can't be viewed 'new players' anymore.

Yes, because knowledge of the callvote system is what seperates "new" from "seasoned" players.  Not item spawn times, not advanced movement, not strategy learned through experience, but callvote! roll

Lets focus on the points I made about the illogical and unintuitive map list, instead of dodging them and making nonsensical comments.

#warsow.na @ Quakenet
North American Warsow

INVERT MOUSE FTW!~

19

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

devi0us wrote:
machinemessiah wrote:

Once new players learn how to type 'callvote map' they can't be viewed 'new players' anymore.

Yes, because knowledge of the callvote system is what seperates "new" from "seasoned" players.  Not item spawn times, not advanced movement, not strategy learned through experience, but callvote! roll

Lets focus on the points I made about the illogical and unintuitive map list, instead of dodging them and making nonsensical comments.

How does a pure UI issue relate to item spawn times, advanced movement, strategy, whatever? Please enlighten me.
Btw, if you want somebody to focus on your points do not call them nonsensical in the same sentence.

`36: stop making me feel retarded

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

machinemessiah wrote:

How does a pure UI issue relate to item spawn times, advanced movement, strategy, whatever? Please enlighten me.
Btw, if you want somebody to focus on your points do not call them nonsensical in the same sentence.

I don't mean to make this into a negative, drawn out argument but you've said some things that are just wrong.

machinemessiah wrote:

Once new players learn how to type 'callvote map' they can't be viewed 'new players' anymore.

What does THAT comment have anything to do with the points I made in the post prior?  So you're saying that a brand new player to Warsow isn't considered new the moment he learns callvote?  That's BS pure and simple.  If you wanted to be constructive in your reply, you would have defended your reasoning/told me why I was wrong about maplist names vs filenames. 

If anything, learning item spawn times, movement, etc would take a player from "new" to "seasoned."

machinemessiah wrote:

Btw, if you want somebody to focus on your points do not call them nonsensical in the same sentence.

What is it that you're reading? 

devi0us wrote:

Lets focus on the points I made about the illogical and unintuitive map list, instead of dodging them and making nonsensical comments.

I called your comment nonsensical.

#warsow.na @ Quakenet
North American Warsow

INVERT MOUSE FTW!~

21

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

bah, this is hopeless

`36: stop making me feel retarded

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

JonH4x wrote:

THE GOOD
+Rocket balance is OUTSTANDING, Don't change a thing!
+wdm11 is a great addition the the maplist, very reminiscent of ztndm3 (Blood Run)
+The new wdm6 looks great! While I was initially skeptical about the art change, the new textures are A+
+The engine optimizations ARE noticeable. The framerate is much more stable and the action is fluid and smooth.
+The new movement may feel different at first, but with cg_oldmovement 1 the game plays faster than ever before.
+The improved dash is a nice touch.
+Shotgun arc is an improvement
+Dash animations = great
+Mac OSX support
+Bobot is a great addition to the cast of characters. He is probably my favorite model.
+The graphical profiles are a great touch
+The tutorials were very much needed, considering how hard Valve fanboys find it to pull off simple strafe jumping.
+Instagib is cool

THE BAD
-The new GL just feels wrong. The strong-ammo nades explode on impact and the regular discs have too much gravity. The old GL felt GREAT, even if it was a "spam" weapon. The effective GL was one of the many things that made the weapon balance stand out for me. IMO i think you should just bring back more or less the 0.32 incarnation, but at the very least you need to ditch the change to the strong ammo projectile. Right now strong ammo disc just feels like a RL shot with gravity. If you fix anything in 0.41, FIX THIS!
-Listing maps by their actual names is a random, and somewhat annoying change. Now you have to scroll through the unorganized list of names and click on each one to determine their gametype. Bring back the old system. It made alot more sense. Also the scrollbar is broken. Maybe add a toggle for mapnames vs the "quake-style" labels.
-wdm15 looks worse than the test version. It's too dark and doesn't look as good as it used to IMO. Fortunately you can import the old version. (although theres one glitched texture on the boxes upstairs)
-EDIT: Was the jump change really necessary?
-Several options in the menu that were present in previous versions have been removed such as "show fps", "show speed", "marks on wall" ect.
-A couple of the new maps fail to live up to the level of quality present in 0.32. Poor ammo placement, flow, ect.
-Various graphical glitches throughout the maps, the most obvious being wca1.
-There should be an option or console command to switch to the old explosion effects. Some people do not like the new marks.
-Plasma Gun still seems a bit on the weak side
-The new render updates are impressive, but I think there should still be maps in the vein of Acid's wdm2 as far as artstyle. Like many have said before, some of the maps look a bit washed out and lacking in color.

THE VERDICT: After eight months of anticipation, the WSW team has delivered another masterpiece, marred only by surprising technical glitches and a disappointing grenade launcher.

Pretty much agree with you on everything, or close to everything. Nice to see my selection of opinions on this release isn't THAT uncommon. tongue

"Strategy requires thought; tactics requires observation." - Max Euwe

23

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

machinemessiah wrote:

-Maps by actual names is a bad choice. The filenames have the gametype they're for in the name so people can at least figure it out. Please bring back filename sorting.

Did you actually try clicking on a map? If there's a recognizable gametype pattern in mapname, the UI will suggest a gametype in status bar.
I figure that people that complain about the new maplist UI didn't actually try using it, it was like "ZOMG!!!11 NO FILENAMES!!!11 WTF?!!!11 CLOSE!!!11", so what the hell.

It's very fun having to click each one of them.

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

machinemessiah wrote:
astsmtl wrote:

I think it would be not so hard to make a two-column sortable table with both filenames and map names. smile

You think wrong

But why? I saw such table in "join game" menu. smile

25

Re: Warsow 0.4 - The Jon Review

UPDATED IMPRESSIONS!!!

DEVELOPERS PLEASE READ/RESPOND!!!

*SUGGESTIONS*
-Add wtest16 back to the maplist. Why was it removed?

-Come to terms with Acid. I understand that there was quite a disagreement about the render updates and the new textures, but that shouldn't be a reason for his great maps to be excluded from the official release. acidwdm2 doesn't need updated textures and bumpmapping! It has a different art style that looks great without the render updates! Maps like acidwdm2 will help combat the current brown quake 1/2, "lack of color" map stereotype that everyone seems to be criticizing. Bring Acid back on the team! Different variety in art styles = More diversity in the maplist! Add his maps back, you don't need to tamper with them!!! acidwdm2 had alot of personality and felt apart of the Warsow world. NEGOTIATE!!!

-Something really needs to be done with wdm15 IMO. The new version just looks so dull and Doom 3ish, and I don't think that kind of look belongs in a bright and vibrant game like Warsow. I miss the rock textures and the whole underground base feel to it. Now it just feels like some random facility. My suggestion would be to re-design it more in keeping with the test version, but thats not very realistic is it? At the very least add some more color, visual taste and most of all, COLOR!!!!

THE GOOD
+wdm10 is an outstanding map. I look forward to seeing it in tournaments.
+wdm9 is easily the best map for tdm. GOTY material.
+I love the strong nades now. Great change, dont listen to the whiners. They should L2P.
+This is easily superior to 0.32

THE BAD
-This version is too enjoyable.